Reader Comments:

Views expressed in submitted comments are that of the author, and not necessarily shared by Railnews.

• Ben Langford, Welling

  To be honest, i already like the the first desiros. Mostly the tpx, despite the fact that they dont have much capacity. I go for the sound, speed and looks- i know its weird

• Andrew Clarke, Oxford

  I honestly believe that the order was short-sighted in that nowhere near enough units were ordered. Having 8-car desiros running between Manchester-Glasgow/Edinburgh would ease the pressure on current services as well as freeing up much needed seating capacity in the Manchester area. The cascaded Class 185s could then be used to stregthen current services or displace the 170s, which in turn could go to XC to strengthen services in the Birmingham area. I completely agree with the idea that LM's own desiros offer a poor quality ride for long-distance journeys. A solution to this could be to order new long-distance units for the Euston-Crewe/Liverpool/Birmingham services (British-made of course!) and cascade the current LM 350s to TPE, a win-win situation overall. However, just when will the government put capacity and the needs of the railway's customers first is anyone's guess.

• Geoff Steel, NORTHAMPTON

  Can I ask if you pass on comments to the DfT as it is clear that virtually all the responses received point overwhelmingly to the fact that the wrong type of train is being procured for TPE services between Manchester and Scotland. I also agree that an AC version of the 444 would be much more appropriate for this service as they are 5 cars in length for more seating capacity and it is vital that there is sufficient luggage capacity too. I regularly travel on the 350's and they lack both luggage spaces and are not very comfortable for anything over 30mins as clearly they are frankly a very good suburban train and no more. Please send all the comments to the DfT before they make yet another disastrous decision

• Anonymous, NA

  The best thing that can be done here is to let London midland have the lot and TPE can either order a dedicated fleet for Scotland routes or use any existing 180's by reaching agreement with Dft and other train operating companies.
  It is pathetic the way these routes are operated. The Dft need to get their fingers out and start delivering a more 'fit for purpose' fleet. Customers pay a high price for using the meagre 3-car DMU's and deserve better.
  Why doesn't someone in power have the guts to stick their head above the parapet and give customers what they deserve?
  
  I dare you to, Mr Minister.

• Robert, Staffs

  'London Midland and Trans Pennine have been operating German-built Desiros for a number of years and both operators must be perfectly happy with Siemens to consider placing further orders for their trains'
  
  Yes LM are very happy - but their passengers are not. Whilst they are incredibly reliable and offer superior ride, they offer very poor standards of comfort for passengers on long distance services, particularly the 350/2's with their cramped 3+2 seating. I use these frequently on the Euston > Crewe service. More than two hours on one of these is no fun. A quite inappropriate train for anything over an hour.

• craig, castleford , great britain

  why shouldn't the trains be built in britain were the jobs are needed to get people working which will kickstart the economy also the new trains should idealy be in my opinion five carriage sets with catering equipment and luggage space the current three car sets are to overcrowded and with the growing passenger numbers four cars will probarbly not be enough to handle projected futuere passenger growth. also the class 185 that these will free it up should be used on the busy comuter lines in yorkshire as a replacement for the overcrowded class144/142 that are currently in use this will give the lines much needed newer rolling stock

• John Gilbert, Cradley, Herefordshire, England

  As a second comment, and one from a cynic, dare I say that whatever electric units are built for Lancashire-Scotland, they will almost certainly be the wrong kind. This is, after all, Britain, where, on past expereince, if something can be done incorrectly, it will be.

• Lee, Manchester, England

  It is interesting to note the Transpennine units will have interiors better suited for long distance travel. Does that mean that unlike the class185's, the new units will actually have sufficient space to store large suitcases and other bulky luggage? The Class 185's are already used on manchester Airport to Glasgow/Edinburgh and Liverpool to Newcastle services and every train I have been on on a daily basis has a wall of luggage across one or more doorways, yet these units were hailed as being long-distance trains.
  
  None of the Desiro types have any catering facilities, unless you count trolley services selling a small selection of over-priced sarnies and crisp served with volcanic vending machine coffee brewed to the consistency of bitumen as catering. I agree with earlier comments, longer bodyshells should be used but the extra space should be filled with luggage storage and a hald-decent catering facility better suited for long-distance travel, rather than the outer-surban based stock design currently used.

• John Gilbert, Cradley, Herefordshire, England

  Services between Manchester, (and, I hope, Liverpool,) and Scotland must OF COURSE be provided by units fitted-out for LONG-DISTANCE travel, and preferably within a 23metre shell. But the best way to provide at least the principal services between those centres would be Pendolinos. It would be intolerable for Lancashire-Scotland main services to be provided by anything else when Lancashire-London services are provided by Pendolinos!! Or is this to be yet another example of Londoncentricity and favouritism?

• MikeB, Liverpool

  London Midland and Trans Pennine have been operating German-built Desiros for a number of years and both operators must be perfectly happy with Siemens to consider placing further orders for their trains. With regard to Bombardier, I am sure they will survive and will soon receive orders for the new Voyager pantograph cars and follow-up orders for Class 172 DMUs.

• Watcherzero, Wigan

  Some will eventually operate in multiple with later electrification, splitting to serve different destinations. But these are an interim solution, eventually TPE (or sucessor franchise) will make a large order of new rolling stock for all the electrified lines and for new services and these 350's will be cascaded back to London Midland (or sucessor franchise).

• David Lawrence, Poole, UK

  Whats wrong with class 377 built in Derby? I wonder if the wider press will pick up this story and make a huge fuss over it. Will these 350 be like the last batch with no tables and 3 abreast seating, just what you need on a long trip!

• Chris, London

  Why is an essentially suburban EMU design considered appropriate for an Inter-City route such as Manchester to Scotland? Surely the most appropriate rolling stock would be a re-fitted Voyager (with transformer car added) or from the Siemens stable an updated version of the 444 with AC capacity. In the South the 450 equivalent of a 350 is essentially a medium distance unit used for stopping and semi fast services, not something to do 200+ miles on.

• jak jaye, sutton, united kingdom

  So Yet Another Train Order Goes To Germany,No Surprise There Considering
  First Group Has Little Time For Britons Ailing Rail Builder Along With Those Other
  Train Spivs,Stagecoach.
  If We Are So Much In The Finacial Mire Why Are We Even Considering Spending Money In Another Country They Should Have Been Built In The UK,At Least Parts For Them,The Privatised Rail Gravy Trains Just Keeps Going.

• Terry Piper, Manchester, England

  Given the passenger numbers on the routes from Manchester Airport to Edinburgh, Glasgow and Windermere surely 4 carriage trains are a joke. The Birmingham serives are using Pendolino sets on some services to reduce overcrowding which have 9 carriages, what this shows is that government (DfT) are not listening to calls for greater capacity and failing to plan for growth.
  

• Bill, Millom, UK

  I hope that the new units of "the latest version" will be similar to the 23 metre bodied 380s of Scotrail in order to maximise capacity rather a follow on order of 20 metre bodied units like the 350s.